Stole My Line - A Fireside Film Podcast
Niche Spider-Man Hot Takes! - Fireside Discussion

Drew:
He says, "Hot Take, Spider-Man 3 is better than any MCU film from Iron Man 1 on. It develops each of its characters better than any modern MCU movie."

Grant:
"Any?"

Drew:
That's crazy.

[Intro]

Grant:
Welcome back to Stole My Line - A Fireside Film Podcast. We're going to get right into it. I'm Grant.

Drew:
And I'm Drew.

Grant:
This is the only outdoor movie podcast. We are breaking down another round of Spider-Man Hot Takes.

Drew:
It's true.

Grant:
If you're new to the channel, we have done the series for a little while now, but also we've done Star Wars Hot Takes. We've done just random movie Hot Takes in general. If you're into Hot Takes, they're up on the channel. You can watch all of our previous Spider-Man Hot Takes videos. Drew, how are you doing today?

Drew:
I'm doing good. How are you?

Grant:
I'm doing great.

Drew:
It's cooler-

Grant:
It is.

Drew:
-than it has been in the past.

Grant:
We had somebody comment yesterday or two days ago saying like, "how is it fall where you are?" I'm like, "it's not fall yet."

Drew:
It's not really fall, but we're closer than we were.

Grant:
When I woke up this morning, it was a little cooler outside. I was like, "oh."

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
I was so excited. So I'm kind of willing fall into existence with this flannel. But I'm excited to talk about Spider-Man.

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
Will you break down our Hot Takes methodology, system, etc.-

Drew:
I would love to.

Grant:
-if you're new to the channel.

Drew:
So, if you're new to the channel. So if you're new, we have a hotness scale.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
Which basically just means how hot is your take in like a cultural sense. Not necessarily do we agree or disagree.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
So starting at the top, we have Raging Fire, which is the hottest of the hot.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
Then we have Enough For S'mores and then we have Some Smoke, which is just like your average hotness.

Grant:
Middle of the road.

Drew:
Then we have Only Embers and then we have Wet Logs. That feels pretty self-explanatory.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
Again, this is not if we agree or disagree or how valid your take is, but this is just like how enraged will it make the general populace.

Grant:
Yes, and we will comment whether or not we agree or disagree or at least do our best to. By the way, if you're new to the channel, thank you for being here.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
Consider subscribing. It helps us continue to grow. If you're listening on audio platform, consider leaving a five star review that also helps grow the podcast platform. Let's get into it.

Drew:
Let's get into it.

Grant:
Do you have one that you want to start with?

Drew:
I would love to. And this is a heater.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I'm ready.

Drew:
This is from ryanshotton1972.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
He says, "Hot take: Spider-Man 3 is better than any MCU film from Iron Man 1 on. It develops each of its characters better than any modern MCU movie."

Grant:
"Any?"

Drew:
That's crazy. That's insane.

Grant:
The word- Okay. If you said "most," I would be like, "uhh, okay." Like I would hear you out. "Any after Iron Man 1?" I mean-

Drew:
Yeah, that's crazy.

Grant:
Spider-Man 3, while it has some strengths, is a very poor execution of a good story. Like there is a good story in there.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
And it is very poorly executed.

Drew:
I think the movie- what it does well is develop its characters.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
I think it gets like the, the arcs are decent, but you're not even claiming here- well, that's like a subclaim, but your main claim is "Spider-Man 3 is better than any MCU film from Iron Man 1 on."

Grant:
"As a whole." Like this, this is-

Drew:
"As a movie." I can think of probably 10 MCU movies off the dome that are better than Spider-Man 3.

Grant:
This is Raging Fire. Like it- this has to be a Raging...

Drew:
Winter Soldier, Guardians, Civil War, Infinity War, even like the first Avengers, Black Panther.

Grant:
Yeah. I would agree with most of those off the bat.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
I think Shang-Chi is a better movie than Spider-Man 3 as a movie. So I'm sorry. Now, if you love Spider-Man and you love character development, Spider-Man 3 does both of those things relatively well. But we have to factor in the fact that like the villains are very underdeveloped.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
There's some really hard scenes to watch-

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
-i.e. the diner scene where he dances at the jazz bar or whatever. Those are rough watches and those make the movie bad for me at least.

Drew:
No, they arere hard to watch.

Grant:
So I firmly disagree.

Drew:
I also firmly disagree.

Grant:
I respect the take.

Drew:
Yeah, I mean I respect the take, but.

Grant:
I respect the passion.

Drew:
This is cr...

Grant:
If you said "Spider-Man 2," I'd be like, "okay."

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
I could hear that one out.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
The number there is "3." So, thanks for sending that in.

Drew:
There was Spider-Man 3 defenders, and like I respect you and you all are welcome here at Stole My Line.

Grant:
You're welcome.

Drew:
But it is-

Grant:
We might not agree with you.

Drew:
It is funny how just hard they are at defending. Fair enough.

Grant:
Yeah. All right. I have a take. Are you ready?

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
This is from ClaudeShannonSuperfan. I don't know who Claude Shannon is. "My hot take," ClaudeShannonSuperfan says, "Brand New Day's potential was tanked by the core theme of even superheroes needing to rely on other people."

Drew:
Oh, wow. Okay.

Grant:
"It would be fine if it was a component, but the insistence on spelling out this theme so rigidly limited the movie's abilities to more deeply explore Peter's other aspects, which in my opinion made this movie rather shallow." This is interesting.

Drew:
This is interesting. I don't think I agree here.

Grant:
I'm going to stew on it and to think on it.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I want to hear your thoughts.

Drew:
I think for this movie specifically, I think this is good. From where we were in No Way Home, I think this is a good transition piece. To like potent- like, we don't know, but five and six where we could potentially explore further, like deeper themes within Peter.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
I, again- I said this on the Brand New Day episode. I don't think this is the deepest movie ever. I don't think this is the deepest Spider-Man movie ever. But I think where Tom Holland's Peter is at the end of No Way Home, this movie makes a lot of sense.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
And this movie is way more Spider-Man than anything the MCU has put out prior.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
So that's kind of my take. I mean, I agree with you here that it's not the deepest thing ever.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
But I don't think that's a bad thing.

Grant:
I am also- I've made up my mind. I also disagree with this take.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Again, I respect it. I think, yes, relying on people outside of yourself as a superhero is kind of a- that's a road that we've been down before-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-in superhero movies. But for this iteration of Spider-Man, I think it actually makes a lot of sense for his character and it's important that he goes on this journey. Because he literally makes the decision at the end of No Way Home to be alone.

Drew:
Right. Yeah.

Grant:
And so like, I think this character arc that he goes on is actually worthwhile. Is it as deep as other movies? No. I can get behind that. But I think that is important and doesn't ruin the movie for me. If anything, I think it ties it together when there's a lot going on. There's like a core theme that I appreciate. So that's my thoughts.

Drew:
I'm- I'm crying.

Grant:
Yeah, there's a lot of smoke today.

Drew:
Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you said.

Grant:
Speaking of smoke, where are we on the hotness scale? Segue.

Drew:
Enough For S'mores?

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I think this is in the hotter- people like Brand New Day.

Drew:
I think people like Brand New Day, yeah.

Grant:
I respect the take. Again, like, this is a solid take.

Drew:
All right.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
This next one is from parkerramirez3571.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
Parker says, "very late, but whatever." You're not late, Parker. You're right on time. "All live action Spider-Man films are defined by their villains. Raimi 1 and 2 are good because of Dafoe and Molina. Give Andrew's two films..." Wait, "give Andrew's two films-" Oh, "give Andrew's two films Dafoe's Goblin and Molina's Doc Ock, and we would have two Dark Knight level superhero movies on the top- at the top of critical acclaim."

Grant:
This isn't crazy.

Drew:
I mean, the weakest part of TASM is the villains. For sure, by a mile.

Grant:
Okay, I'm going to apply this logic to the Homecoming trilogy.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Do you think Far From Home is defined by its villain? Because I think Mysterio is a good villain, but I don't think the movie is very good.

Drew:
Yeah, I agree. Here's what I'll say.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
I think... I don't know how to articulate my thoughts here. I think the plot of TASM is better than the plot in this- like the character writing of the Homecoming trilogy.

Grant:
Yeah, that's fine.

Drew:
I think the villains of the Homecoming trilogy are better than TASM.

Grant:
I would also agree.

Drew:
But I think I still prefer TASM because the story is better, even though the villains suck.

Grant:
I'm going to say I mostly agree. I'm a big fan of Homecoming, as you guys well know.

Drew:
I think, I mean- Vulture is a great villain.

Grant:
Yeah, okay. I will- I'll say I slightly agree here with like the asterisk of, I don't think they're defined by their villains, but they are elevated a lot by their villains-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-more so than other movies would be. I think like obviously Dafoe's Green Goblin is such a strong performance and a strong villain overall, but then the way he weeds his way into Peter's personal life and in a very different way, same with Doc Ock, like that personal connection to the villains actually matters a lot and I think it really elevates those movies. And so yes, I think if the TASM movies had something as similar, I would feel probably that they're some of the best superhero movies ever made. They just-

Drew:
That's like a crazy alternate universe to think of.

Grant:
Yeah, imagine like Andrew Garfield fighting Willem Dafoe.

Drew:
That is wild.

Grant:
Which I guess he sort of did in No Way Home, but that's not what I'm talking about, like within TASM.

Drew:
Yeah, I mean, I don't think a villain makes or breaks a movie. I think they are a significant factor and I think a good villain can elevate something pretty high. But again, I think the plot and the heart and the character writing also matter, which is where I think like a Homecoming or that trilogy lacks. But I think I agree-

Grant:
I think-

Drew:
-in the general sense here.

Grant:
-the first two Raimi movies have other strengths that even without good villains, they would still be strengths of the movie. But then again, the really great villains elevate those movies a lot too. But I think I agree overall still.

Drew:
Okay. I'm going to say a soft agree.

Grant:
I mean, one of his points is that the TASM movies would be Dark Knight-level great if they had as good of villains as the Raimi first two movies. I don't think that's crazy. Maybe not Dark Knight-level good, but I think they would be very good, at least better.

Drew:
I think they would be better, but I mean, if we're comparing it to Dark Knight-

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
-which the plot of the Dark Knight is absolutely incredible.

Grant:
That's true.

Drew:
I would say if all we did is switch out the villain, or made the villain better, I would say the plot of TASM is still "fine."

Grant:
It's maybe on par with like Dark Knight Rises.

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
Okay. Okay.

Drew:
I don't think we're comparing it to the Dark Knight.

Grant:
Parker, I hear your take. I soft agree with it.

Drew:

Grant:
Yep. It's a little hyperbolic, but that's okay. How are we feeling on the hotness scale for this one, Drew?

Drew:
Going to say Some Smoke.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I don't think that's the hottest take, but I think it's a good take. All right. Are you ready? This one's an interesting one.

Drew:
I'm ready.

Grant:
All right. This is from andrewboyd585. This take reads, "People consider it common knowledge that Peter 2," which I guess is Raimi's-

Drew:
I think it is Raimi. Yeah.

Grant:
-Peter, "has the most experience as Spider-Man by the end of his trilogy compared with the other two," meaning the other two Spider-Men. "I have yet to see why people don't include or consider how Peter 1," so Tom Holland, "fought many different threats in the span of about a couple years, experienced alone. Tobey only fought five guys across three films, which spans about four years or something. Tom fought like seven+ guys across about three years for him. I never understood why people say Tobey was always better as Spider-Man from what he does on screen alone. The first movie is about a year and he fights one villain, and we are supposed to call that more experience. I get Norman is an equal for his power, but still I don't hate the movies. I just hate this train of thought. What do you guys think?" And then tags on: "I also think they artificially help Tobey or artificially hurt Tom to make Tobey look better from movie one- from movie one, whereas Tom struggles against basic thugs and a normal guy in a suit. I don't know, but it doesn't feel fair. Okay, there's a lot here.

Drew:
There is a lot here.

Grant:
To kind of synthesize the take. Tobey fought less villains in a longer span of time, but people kind of see him as a stronger Spider-Man than Tom who fought more villains in a shorter amount of time.

Drew:
True.

Grant:
And he also mentions that the movies kind of artificially make Tom look weaker by struggling against maybe normal thugs who are robbing the bank in Homecoming, whereas Tobey doesn't really get that same benefit of the doubt- or that same, I guess, nerfing a little bit.

Drew:
That's true.

Grant:
He gets more benefit of the doubt. So.

Drew:
First point, I think in No Way Home, it's just kind of assumed that Tobey has fought more things after.

Grant:
Right.

Drew:
Like this kind of in my assumption is like, he's older- he's the old wise guy because he's, because A, Tobey Maguire, the actor, is older and wiser, or not maybe not wiser, but older. And by that logic, I just kind of, and I don't know what I base this off of, but I just assume that after Raimi 3, because like it's implied that there was things that happened after because he mentioned something about MJ. So it implied that they worked it out and they figured it out. I also take that to imply that he's fought other things and he has matured further than Andrew and Tom in his Spider-Man antics.

Grant:
Yes, but I think this take is also mentioning, because I think in Homecoming, yes, there's even an onscreen scene where Tobey beats Andrew in their kind of web-off that they have.

Drew:
Sure, yep.

Grant:
Like it's implied that Tobey is the best Spider-Man overall. But if we're taking just like within the movies themselves, if we're to stack up-

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
-Tobey from only what we've seen in his trilogy versus what we saw in Tom's trilogy, this might have been prior to Brand New Day, whatever, like people I think still view Tobey as stronger.

Drew:
I think that is true. Well, I mean, I think even from what we see and I guess they're saying like, why is this? I don't really know why this is, but like Tobey off the bat is stronger than Tom.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Because Tom struggles with the bank, like you mentioned, the bank robber, he kind of gets cooked. And Tobey instantly beats, what's his name? The wrestling guy. And like with basic thugs, it's just kind of like, because he was bit by the spider and spider sense has kicked in, therefore he is better than most humans, I think.

Grant:
I think I'm going to soft agree with this take because there's a lot of thoughts here, but Tom doesn't get enough credit, at least in his like initial trilogy for sure. Like he fought not only kind of big, powerful villains, but also other superheroes.

Drew:
Like half the Avengers, yeah.

Grant:
In Civil War when he's like 15 or 16, like he's young. So I think he probably deserves more credit.

Drew:
Would you say he held his own though? Because Tony has that one line of like, "if Cap wanted to lay you out, he would have."

Grant:
Yeah, but I mean- yeah, I guess that's fair.

Drew:
I don't know.

Grant:
Uh, he took down Giant Ant-Man.

Drew:
Right. That's true.

Grant:
He was a player in that battle.

Drew:
Sure, I mean, yeah, we'll give him that. That's fine.

Grant:
He wasn't useless.

Drew:
That's fine.

Grant:
So...

Drew:
I don't know. I think, I mean at the end of the day, I think it's artistic interpretation.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
Raimi made Tobey more powerful than Watts did, so it's like, what are you going to do? But it is interesting for sure.

Grant:
Interesting take. How hot is this take, Drew?

Drew:
I'm going to say, I'm in between Some Smoke or Enough For S'mores. You decide.

Grant:
Uh, Some Smoke.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I respect the take. I don't think it's the hottest one.

Drew:
It's an interesting conversation for sure.

Grant:
For sure. All right.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
What's our next take, Drew?

Drew:
We have Musicsux. Oh. But it's spelled S-U-X.

Grant:
Does music suck?

Drew:
Maybe that's not how I'm supposed to pronounce your name, but...

Grant:
It looks like "Musicsux."

Drew:
"Musicsux." So... I like music.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
That's okay.

Grant:
Some music sucks.

Drew:
Sure, yeah.

Grant:
All right. What's the take?

Drew:
"Mysterio is MCU Spider-Man's best villain." Oh...

Grant:
Okay...

Drew:
"The argument that he's an Iron Man villain is overblown. His original grudge-

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
-came from Tony Stark, but the entire movie, his focus is on manipulating Peter. He had some of the best action scenes and visuals in the Home trilogy, and the repercussions of Mysterio outing Peter as Spider-Man are still rippling now. Also, the best design of all live-action Spider-Man villains." "All live-action Spider-Man villains?" Okay, hold on.

Grant:
There's a... This is... Can I just go ahead and say-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-this is a Raging Fire take?

Drew:
Yeah, that's fine.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
Okay. "All live-action..." Okay, look. Willem Dafoe's design in No Way Home is... At the end, is better than Mysterio.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
I'm sorry. Straight up.

Grant:
I think Mysterio's design is good. Like, it's...

Drew:
I think Doc Ock's design, period, is better.

Grant:
Yeah, I would also agree.

Drew:
He might be third. Ah, Vulture's pretty sick.

Grant:
Mysterio, looks...

Drew:
Do you think he's better than Vulture?

Grant:
He looks a little better than Vulture.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Vulture just looks like a dude put on a bird costume.

Drew:
Well...

Grant:
With a lot of tech on it.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
Which is what it was.

Drew:
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Grant:
It fits the character, but if we're talking about, like, coolness level...

Drew:
Okay, I can give Mysterio the third slot.

Grant:
Sure.

Drew:
Maybe Electro. I'm kidding.

Grant:
Which-

Drew:
That was a joke.

Grant:
Okay, wow- that was ragebait.

Drew:
That, guys... That was a joke. That was a joke. That was a joke.

Grant:
That was crazy ragebait. That's... That was dumb.

Drew:
Okay, let's actually read the take.

Grant:
I mean, okay.

Drew:
"He's the best-" he's not the best.

Grant:
The Venom design is not bad in Spider-Man 3.

Drew:
I kind of agree, actually.

Grant:
Like, it's not great, but it's not... It is pretty good.

Drew:
It- I would say it might be great. The design strictly visually.

Grant:
Yeah, I think I agree.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Wow, that's crazy.

Drew:
That is crazy.

Grant:
Um... Gosh.

Drew:
Okay, uh...

Grant:
There's a lots of break down here.

Drew:
"Iron Man villain argument is overblown."

Grant:
That's probably fair. I don't like that people just say "this villain is bad" because there's fallout from another character.

Drew:
Yeah, but...

Grant:
Do I wish Tom had his own villains? Sure.

Drew:
He doesn't really have a... Like, the only reason he cares about Peter at all is to get the glasses.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
And when he realizes that Peter has... Like- the smoke is destroying me right now.

Grant:
I'm so sorry.

Drew:
When he realizes that Peter has the little projector thing.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
That's the catalyst for him to be like, "well, now I gotta kill a kid."

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Um... None of that is, like, strictly tied into who Peter is or anything. It's just... Quentin Beck is angry at Iron Man, happens to stumble across Peter, and therefore gets tied in with Peter. Whereas every other Spider-Man villain mostly is like, "I have a problem with Peter Parker and I have a problem with Spider-Man" by the end of the movie.

Grant:
I mean, if we're talking just a Homecoming trilogy, I think Vulture is a better written villain. Who has better motivations, something that obviously he takes it a few steps too far, but are motivations that you can kind of get behind of, like-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-"hey, I want to provide for my family in a world that basically, like, shunned me for doing what my job was originally." So, like, I don't know. I just think Vulture is a better villain.

Drew:
I will say this. You mentioned visuals. And we've said this before, but the Spider-Man sense, or spider sense scene at the end of Far From Home is awesome.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
So good. When he catches the gun, such a sick moment. That whole scene's sick. But I don't think that makes up for kind of a lackluster villain, in my opinion.

Grant:
I also think that the scene between Vulture and Peter in Homecoming, where they're in the car, like, and Liz leaves.

Drew:
So good, yeah.

Grant:
And it, like, it's just Michael Keaton and Tom Holland. That scene is so good.

Drew:
So good.

Grant:
And it, honestly, in my opinion, is better than the Mysterio Spider-Sense scene.

Drew:
Ooh.

Grant:
That might be a hot take of my own.

Drew:
That might be a hot take.

Grant:
But I like that scene so much. And I think, like, even that scene, the tension is so much better. And the plot twist in Homecoming is so good.

Drew:
It is good.

Grant:
That I think Vulture is a better villain.

Drew:
You think it's better than Far From Home, the plot twist? It's not, I mean, it's not really a plot twist.

Grant:
Yeah, totally, totally.

Drew:
Like, everybody knew Mysterio was bad.

Grant:
Yeah, like...

Drew:
So it's not even a plot twist.

Grant:
No, the, because everybody knows Vulture's bad, but then we don't know that he's Liz's dad.

Drew:
Right, yeah.

Grant:
And that rug pull is so good,-

Drew:
Yeah

Grant:
-because that puts Peter in a very interesting and very Spider-Man situation.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
So I like it a lot.

Drew:
I agree. Okay. I disagree with his take, but...

Grant:
I do as well.

Drew:
How hot do we think it is?

Grant:
Uhhh. I don't know.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
What do you think?

Drew:
I'm gonna say Enough For S'mores.

Grant:
Sure.

Drew:
Okay. All right. Is it my turn or your turn?

Grant:
I think it is my turn. Hold up. I've lost the takes. All right.

Drew:
Oih, I found one that's kind of crazy.

Grant:
This is from BLBRUH...

Drew:
"BL-Bruh."

Grant:
BLBRUH-124. Okay. "Hot take. Brand New Day was good, but kind of mid. Didn't love the villain and didn't like it. Didn't love the villain and didn't love the MJ plot line."

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Um... Here's my thoughts.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
If you don't love the... If you don't love Sadie Sink's Jean Grey and you don't love MJ's character arc/plotline within the movie, you probably will not like Brand New Day.

Drew::
Sure. That's... That's 50% of the plot.

Grant:
So...

Drew:
If not more. That's probably 80% of the plot.

Grant:
If your hot take is that you dislike it because you dislike those things, that's not the hot of a take. However, I think those things are good within the movie. There's been, I think, a little more criticism that Jean Grey takes from this movie more than she gives to it. I still think that she is well-written within the movie though.

Drew:
I agree.

Grant:
I don't know.

Drew:
Uh... This is kind of a take where it's like, I want more information. I want... I mean, like, you gave us your why of like, I don't like X, Y, and Z, but why don't you like X, Y, and Z? But I think I disagree. I like Brand New Day. I don't think it's the greatest Spider-Man movie. I don't think it's the greatest movie. I think it's very solid, very good. It puts the MCU Spider-Man in the right direction.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
But I also understand that it's not for everybody, and if you have specific problems with like the mind control stuff, I don't love all the Jean Grey stuff. I think that's fine. I think that's a fair criticism.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
But I liked it.

Grant:
I think also... Okay, let me back up.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
There are issues in the Homecoming trilogy of meshing the character of Spider-Man with the MCU. And I think Homecoming does an overall decent job. And then Far From Home kind of just meanders. No Way Home is a bit of a giant question mark. How do you feel about that movie? I don't even know half the time. But I think Brand New Day does a good job of meshing the character of Spider-Man, Peter Parker, into the MCU.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
In interaction with other characters, but also it feels very Peter Parker, very Spider-Man. And that's what I want more of. So...

Drew:
Right, I agree. Yeah.

Grant:
In that regard, I kind of disagree. What do you think?

Drew:
I think I agree with that.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
They don't even say they don't like it. They just say it's mid. So, I don't know.

Grant:
I don't think it's that hard of a take to say that the movie is mid and you don't like the Jean Grey stuff.

Drew:
Yeah, I think that's fine.

Grant:
What do you think the hotness scale should be for this one?

Drew:
BLBRUH, you earned Some Smoke.

Grant:
Go for it.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
That's great. All right.

Drew:
All right. We're going to go with freshheir - "heir" H-E-I-R - 29881.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
Okay. "Spidey movies need to start repeating villains." This is interesting. "I think street-level heroes do better when they have established relationships with their villains. Daredevil and Kingpin."

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
"When Spider-Man encounters Shocker for the third time in a week, the humor works better because why would he be serious? When Flynn or Eddie turn to crime after..."

Grant:
"Intimate?"

Drew:
"Intimate arcs-" I don't know what that means. The... Or I guess like, like character-rich arcs, maybe?

Grant:
Sure.

Drew:
"-the emotions hit harder." This is true, actually. I agree with that. "The moments when he forces to work with Otto or Norman would work if there's history there. That's why Spider-Man shows work so well. He's perfect for that kind of world building. It's a shame that Spider-Man movies thus far all feel so disjointed because of how one-off each of them feel. I understand each film has to be its own, but the lack of time with the villains makes their relationship to Peter lack the depth they could have. Tobey's movies came the closest to this. Still not quite all there, but... Though, imagine Brand New Day opening with Tom easily handling the Vulture in a fight while quipping the entire time. It would be a cool way to show how much he's grown in strength since Homecoming." I actually love that idea for the opening concept.

Grant:
I think he also kind of does that to an extent with Scorpion.

Drew:
Yeah, that- I was gonna mention that. It's like Scorpion's here, and we kind of set that up of like... There are these villains of like Tombstone, The Hand. But I agree. I think... Like even like the Spider-Man game, when you're fighting Shocker for like the 14th time, it's like funny and we're quipping back and forth, and we have this relationship of like... I've chased Shocker throughout the city at least five times.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
So it's like there is elements of humor there. And I agree. I think the movies have missed that.

Grant:
I think too about Invincible, which we watched-

Drew:
Oh, great pull.

Grant:
-the latest season this past year, and it is obviously episodic, but also has recurring villains. And at some point, you can be like kind of tired of the recurring villains. But I feel like almost each time the villains come back, it adds another stress to Mark. And also like other things have occurred in between when he meets these villains. And so each time he meets them, they have a slightly different flavor. Or just like the combination of events makes this one iteration of this villain very frustrating for Mark to deal with in that moment. And I think you could have that with Spider-Man. In a Spider-Man TV show. So yes, I think I agree actually. If you're talking about like, this is what you want from a Spider-Man piece of media, and the films haven't done a good job of that so far, I'm actually going to agree.

Drew:
I think I agree too.

Grant:
I don't think that's- I don't know how hot thentake is though.

Drew:
I think a lot of people who like read comics and are super into Spider-Man would agree with this.

Drew:
It's also just a medium issue. I mean, you have two hours.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
And so like it is difficult to convey that same feeling in, I mean, Tobey's movies are what? Six, six and a half hours combined?

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
That's not a lot of time.

Drew:
And I mean, this is a complete like production side, but I mean in the Homecoming trilogy, obviously a Michael Keaton playing Vulture.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
To bring him back for like a three-minute scene would kind of anchor the budget in a sense of like, bigger actors have bigger rates for even little amounts of time in movies. So like from a financial perspective, that would be difficult to do.

Grant:
Now, like-

Drew:
Maybe, but also your marvel, so.

Grant:
-finances and Spider-Man don't-

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
-like, I mean, it's still going to come out on the positive end, but yes. No, I think I agree with this overall though.

Drew:
Yeah, I think I agree.

Grant:
How hot is the take?

Drew:
Only Embers?

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
It's not that hot. I think it's a great take though. All right. This one's fun. Are you ready?

Drew:
Mm-hmm.

Grant:
gagehuntt, with two T's, says, "Marisa Tomei is the best Aunt May. I don't even know if that's a hot take."

Drew:
I think that is a hot take.

Grant:
I think that is a hot take.

Drew:
I think she's the worst Aunt May.

Grant:
Explain your reasoning, Drew.

Drew:
Uh, I think, I mean, I think Marisa Tomei's Aunt May has the least amount of depth. And I think she has the- probably the least amount of screen time. Maybe? I say, with asterisks. But I think she has the least amount of depth with Peter in a relational sense.

Grant:
Mm, I don't know because I'm starting to think back to the Raimi trilogy and the TASM duology, whatever we're calling that junk. It's not like he had extensive depth with Aunt May in either of those sets of movies either.

Drew:
In Raimi?

Grant:
In Raimi he does, but not really in TASM.

Drew:
I think TASM is lacking. I mean, there's the scene, isn't there a scene in Tazam where he's like, "I want my parents-"

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
-and she's like, "I've raised you." I would argue that scene has more depth than anything Marisa Tomei has.

Grant:
No, not in No Way Home. When she dies in No Way Home...

Drew:
Well, I know when she dies, but that feels like a cop-out.

Grant:
No, but like, uh, yeah, I, I don't know.

Drew:
I think Raimi's one, for sure. I think, especially Spider-Man 2, like when Peter's telling Aunt May that...

Grant:
Oh yeah. I mean, that is... Like, he basically is responsible.

Drew:
Like, he killed Aunt Ben- Uncle Ben.

Grant:
Aunt Ben.

Drew:
Aunt Ben. Uncle- like that moment was crazy. And then when she's moving and they have the whole moment of like, "why do I need to be a hero?" That moment's incredible.

Grant:
Yeah. I think that is a deeper moment than anything we get with Marisa Tomei. No offense to her. She is great and there's more depth added in Brand New Day that I appreciate relatively.

Drew:
I guess are we including Brand New Day?

Grant:
I think we have to at this point.

Drew:
Okay, that's fine. I think it's kind of a toss-up between TASM Homecoming/Brand New Day.

Grant:
Here's the thing though, like take PS4, PS5 Spider-Man 1 game.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
None of the movies hold a candle to that.

Drew:
Yeah, that's true.

Grant:
And so...

Drew:
But also there's way more time.

Grant:
Yeah, I know, I know.

Drew:
But I agree.

Grant:
If we're talking about like, really having depth between Aunt May and Peter, that does that justice. And I don't think any of the films do it full justice. Raimi probably does the best.

Drew:
Yes.

Grant:
That's all my thoughts.

Drew:
I don't know if I... I mean, I definitely disagree.

Grant:
I think I also disagree. This has got to be a hotter take, right?

Drew:
I think it is. I'm going to say Enough For S'mores.

Grant:
Okay. That's fine. All right, next take Drew.

Drew:
All right, we got shockerblaster.

Grant:
That's a sick name.

Drew:
"My hot take is that Spider-Man has had too much exposure on the big screen, and we should finally get a live-action main universe Spider-Man TV show. The best way to keep Spider-Man's stories small and personal is to just take away those blockbuster requirements." I agree in theory, but in practice, the Spider-Man Brand New Day is now the most profitable Marvel movie of all time.

Grant:
Okay, keep going with the take.

Drew:
But. "Have him there for the team-ups. Yes, give him a movie every few years? Sure. But Spidey needs a smaller scale to tell some of his best stories. We've seen how well this can work with some of the Fantastic Spider-Man animated shows, and now Spider-Noir has proven it can work in live-action as well. But if the goal, as it seems to be with Brand New Day is to bring Spidey back down to street level, then a TV series is probably the best way to do that. With movies, everything has to feel suitably grand to justify seeing it on the big screen. It also has to be concise and quick-paced to keep those butts in seats. This works fine for some Spidey stories, but it's time to give that friendly neighborhood some more room to breathe. I'm not talking about the Disney_ 6-hour movie format with all its pitfalls. I'm talking something like the CW DC shows, but with a budget and, you know, well-written." That's a good- that's a good clarification.

Grant:
Yeah, that is a good clarification. Um, again, like if we're talking about in theory, you are 110% correct.

Drew:
100% correct, yes.

Grant:
Like, yes, I think almost any story is probably better suited for an eight-episode miniseries than a two-hour movie, almost any. I mean, I think-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-movies being concise, there's an art and a talent to that-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-which is why we have trilogies and stuff. But, like, I don't know. I'm just trying to imagine this version of Peter scaled back down to the, the Netflix Daredevil-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-like, scale. And I just don't- there's part of me that thinks that while that would be really great, also, this Peter has fought the Thanos. And so it would feel like an overall regression to have him just on the small screen again.

Drew:
Maybe. I think I could- I think I could make the transition.

Grant:
I mean, I think I could, but I don't think it would work culturally well.

Drew:
Yeah, I think that's probably, that might be true.

Grant:
I mean-

Drew:
I don't think this will ever happen.

Grant:
No, it will not, unfortunately.

Drew:
Just because Spider-Man is the most profitable IP-

Grant:
But we saw-

Drew:
-maybe ever.

Grant:
-with Noir that it can work really well.

Drew:
100%.

Grant:
Like, Noir is great.

Drew:
It's phenomenal.

Grant:
Um...

Drew:
And here's the thing, I think we will get more in that vein. I mean, I think they confirmed, like, a Spider-Punk TV show. And, like, we're going down this road of all the extraneous Spider-Verse characters getting their own spinoffs. Which I think is a cool concept and can be executed well. But will we get a Tom Holland, Peter Parker, mainline Spider-Man? Probably not.

Grant:
I'm torn. I don't know.

Drew:
I think, I think it could be good.

Grant:
Here's the thing about Brand New Day is it does have enough spectacle to be seen on the big screen.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
And I can't imagine it- that movie had- I don't think it could have been done well in a miniseries.

Drew:
I agree.

Grant:
I think it would have felt closer to, like...

Drew:
It would have been Daredevil-y.

Grant:
Yeah. Or, like, Miss Marvel.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
Like, it would have just been like, "why was this a TV show?"

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
It was- there wasn't enough meat on the bones there.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
But I think, like, let's say you take the story of the PS4 Spider-Man and stretch it out into- or convert it to a miniseries.

Drew:
That could work very well.

Grant:
Or a two-season TV show. I'd be like, "that would work great." Spider-Man as a character is too profitable to do that, unfortunately. So, it's sad, but it's just how the world works.

Drew:
This is kind of the reality, yeah.

Grant:
So.

Drew:
I agree with your take-

Grant:
I- I do too...

Drew:
-in theory, but, yeah.

Grant:
Also, I don't really trust Disney to put out- well, I say that. Wonder Man was good.

Drew:
Wonder Man was good.

Grant:
Which is- makes it even more of a tragedy. I don't really trust Disney to put out, like, a consistently good miniseries/TV show.

Drew:
It depends on who they have on board.

Grant:
I know that they have hit on a few, but they've missed on more. And that, I would rather not put Spider-Man into that situation, so.

Drew:
I kind of agree with that, actually. Unless Daniel Destin Cretton's on board.

Grant:
Yes. By the way, come on the pod if you're watching.

Drew:
Please.

Grant:
Please, we need you. How hot is this take?

Drew:
I think- I think most people agree here. I'm gonna say Some Smoke.

Grant:
Okay, that's fine.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
I'm fine with that.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
All right, ready for another one?

Drew:
I'm so ready.

Grant:
This is from mordecool9696. "mordecool." okay. mordecool says, "my Spider-Man hot take is that Tom Holland easily has the best theme/soundtrack out of the live action Spider-Men. Miles still has the best of the whole franchise."

Drew:
I agree.

Grant:
So "live action" is important here. "I know that people love the Danny Elfman and Hans Zimmer scores. I myself included, but I think Michael Giacchino's theme for Spider-Man captures the essence and feeling of the character so much more than the other two. It's also just a lot more catchy than the others." This is not crazy.

Drew:
Okay, I don't think I can think of any of them. Sure, I can think of the Homecoming, or the-

Grant:
I can think of the Homecoming one. I'm not gonna sing it on the pod.

Drew:
Can you sing it?

Grant:
Do you want me to sing this on the pod?

Drew:
I can't think of it.

Grant:
Um, I'm not gonna sing this on the podcast. This is- I'm not gonna do that to our listeners. Here, pull it up.

Drew:
Should I just look it up?

Grant:
If you play it for 10 seconds, we won't get flagged. I hope. We'll see.

Drew:
Uh, Spider-Man.

Grant:
We might just cut this. Who knows? This is horrible audio listening.

Drew:
I know.

Grant:
But we want to do this take justice. We want to give it everything we got.

Drew:
So we just, should we do Homecoming? Yeah, probably.

Grant:
Just like the main theme.

Drew:
Well, I know, but there are s- okay.

Grant:
There is a main theme.

Drew:
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's like the "da-da-da." Yeah.

Grant:
No, no, no. That's not the main theme, though.

Drew:
Oh.

Grant:
That's the, that's the intro that they do for the Marvel thing. That's not the homecoming theme. There's like a theme.

Drew:
I don't know where... oh.

Grant:
You would recognize it 10 times out of 10.

Drew:
This isn't it. Is it?

Grant:
Yeah. This is it. I think. [theme plays] That's it. That's the theme.

Drew:
Okay. That one's iconic.

Grant:
In today's culture, sure.

Drew:
I will say in Brand New Day, the way Giacchino like used the score and like made it sad and had that theme line, whether it's that or something else, I can't remember.

Grant:
No, it's that one.

Drew:
But he like used that in like, had a cello and it was sad. I was like, "that's really cool."

Grant:
I mean, Giacchino's goated.

Drew:
Right. He is.

Grant:
I'm going to agree. I think the Danny Elfman score is great. I think the Hans Zimmer score is good because it's Hans Zimmer.

Drew:
I don't have an opinion here.

Grant:
I do. I think this is the best one.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
I'm not even going to lie. Like, I think they're all great.

Drew:
I just can't think of any of them.

Grant:
Hans Zimmer has his Hans Zimmer vibe and he's just not as catchy.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
Like, he's just not. Now, he does a great job of orchestrating like the background music of a movie.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
Like, he is- he is awesome. But I think maybe excluding Dune and some of his like best stuff, he kind of just all sounds the same.

Drew:
I think that is true.

Grant:
I mean, Interstellar is obviously Interstellar and it's goated.

Drew:
His catchy is Pirates of the Caribbean.

Grant:
That's Hans Zimmer?

Drew:
I think so.

Grant:
Gosh, that one is great.

Drew:
Like, that's catchy.

Grant:
I feel like I need to retract my Hans Zimmer statement. But like, I couldn't tell you-

Drew:
No, I think this is actually true.

Grant:
-like the Dark Knight trilogy.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
Like, there's a vibe of the music in that movie and it's great. But like, that vibe kind of supports every other movie that he does.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
And there's a few really great themes that he does. I think Giacchino has a better Spider-Man theme.

Drew:
Okay. I can't think of any, so I agree.

Grant:
End take.

Drew:
Giacchino is currently doing Spider-Man and Batman though. That's kind of wild.

Grant:
We talked about this before in the pod. It is crazy to me how quickly composers can get soundtracks out.

Drew:
Yeah, it is pretty wild.

Grant:
Like, cinematographers don't do- maybe they do this many movies, but I feel like these composers just gotta hole themselves up in a studio and just like crank out-

Drew:
I know.

Grant:
-a score in like two weeks or whatever.

Drew:
But both Ludwig and Giacchino have made at least two scores this year.

Grant:
They probably have more on the way.

Drew:
Like, Ludwig did Mandalorian and Odyssey, and Giacchino did End of Oak Street and Spider-Man. So.

Grant:
All right. Hotness scale for this one.

Drew:
You gotta pick, you gotta- I don't know.

Grant:
I'll go. Uhh... I don't know how many people would get hung up on this.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
Some Smoke.

Drew:
Yeah, that's fine.

Grant:
Because that's where we slot literally almost all of these.

Drew:
Hey, I like this name.

Grant:
All right.

Drew:
All right.

Grant:
Hit me with the next take.

Drew:
This is from WildWestWagyu.

Grant:
Oh, yeah, we've talked about him before.

Drew:
I like your name.

Grant:
"Them."

Drew:
"Hot take. Shorter and more manageable than my last one." That's hilarious. "Spider-Man as a full franchise of films is more consistently enjoyable than Star Wars. Spider-Man has never had a fully bad run as a movie or show, snd it's easier to justify a bad Spidey movie over a bad Star Wars one. We are not counting the Sony Spidey villain film because there's no Spidey in it." Agree.

Grant:
Okay. I can- that's fine.

Drew:
"This is coming from a huge fan of both by the way." Okay. I kind of agree here. I say that as a more Spider-Man than Star Wars fan.

Grant:
So there's about the same amount of Spider-Man films and Star Wars films out there.

Drew:
That's kind of crazy actually.

Grant:
I think Star Wars almost has more weight to bear because there's a whole world-building aspect that you don't get with Spider-Man. Because like Spider-Man's set in New York.

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
You don't need to world-build New York too much. I'm trying to think the lows of Spider-Man stacked up against the lows of Star Wars.

Drew:
The lows of Star Wars are worse.

Grant:
Yeah, Rise-

Drew:
Well, I don't know.

Grant:
No, Rise of Skywalker is horrible.

Drew:
Okay, yeah.

Grant:
It is one of the worst movies to ever be generated by Hollywood.

Drew:
Valid.

Grant:
It is awful.

Drew:
Yes, I agree.

Grant:
Sorry, I hate that movie with a burning passion.

Drew:
If you want to see us rant about the sequel trilogy...

Grant:
Oh, we will.

Drew:
-we have that on the internet.

Grant:
It is on the internet. I throw a chair. It's awesome sauce. Yeah, I agree with this take. I think it's fine.

Drew:
Yeah, I agree.

Grant:
Now, I think the highs of Star Wars are better, slightly. Slightly, marginally. Okay, the highs of Star Wars, "I am your father."

Drew:
Oh, yeah.

Grant:
"You were the Chosen One." Those are better moments in a movie overall. Again, it's like- we're nitpicking.

Drew:
It is very subjective. I think- I think I can agree. But I love Spider-Man, too. But I agree.

Grant:
Name a Spider-Man moment that is better than blowing up the Death Star.

Drew:
Well, I tried to think of one and I couldn't.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Yeah, I don't think I can.

Grant:
I'm fine with this.

Drew:
Yeah, yeah.

Grant:
I like this take a lot, actually. This is a lot of fun. Hotness scale for this?

Drew:
Enough For S'mores?

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Okay. I think some people would say, "Star Wars is more consistently enjoyable." And I would ask, "when's the last time that you have watched every single Star Wars piece of media all in a row?"

Drew:
It's a journey.

Grant:
Because we did that on the podcast. And so we have ball knowledge. Also, we grew up watching them. All right. Sorry, I'm trying to write this down. I just completely misspelled that, but that's okay. All right. I have one for you. Are you ready?

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
This is from Death2Greed. This is referring to Far From Home. Death2Greed says, "I think this movie did a great job at slapping some sense to Peter and basically telling him to take this *stuff* seriously." Oh, I think I replaced a swear word with "stuff."

Drew:
With "stuff."

Grant:
You can guess- you can use your brain there. "Since he's too focused on Iron Man and his personal life, the Mysterio reveal at the end felt like a great consequence for Peter not prioritizing his life as Spider-Man as much as the rest of his life. The ending sequence with the Spider-Sense felt ripped straight out of Spider-Man PS1, which is a top five game of all time for me. Jake Gyllenhaal brought it as the villain. And overall made the movie a fun watch for me. That being said, it's a 7.5/10 because I don't care for his friends or anything revolving school. It could have been much worse." I will say I probably get a little too hung up on my detractors from this movie. Like, I think that the MCU humor is so bad-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-in retrospect. It has not aged well. And I think that the school storyline is just not that interesting. But the other stuff of this movie can be very good. The Nick Fury stuff is stupid. I- never mind I disagree.

Drew:
Nick Fury stuff is stupid.

Grant:
I disagree.

Drew:
The Elementals are kind of stupid.

Grant:
I honestly wish the Mysterio reveal was done better. Is this crazy?

Drew:
I think it's done decent, but continue.

Grant:
Imagine this was like a plot twist at so much of a higher level. Like an insanely high level. Because you can kind of smell the BS from the beginning.

Drew:
Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Grant:
He's from another dimension.

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
And the Elementals like- I don't know. I think-

Drew:
I mean, it is a very surface-level plot twist.

Grant:
And I think it's serviceable within the movie.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
But there's a better plot twist in the movie before. So.

Drew:
In this movie? Or-

Grant:
No no, in Homecoming.

Drew:
-the Vultue. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we've harped on this a lot. I think Far From Home is pretty garbage. But I think I disagree here with your comment of like, "this movie does a good job of slapping some sense into Peter." I think everything Peter learned at the end of Far From Home, he already knew in Homecoming.

Grant:
Yeah, we've talked about this in the podcast, but they literally have the same exact arc, of like-

Drew:
The only thing that's different is his identity is revealed, which is important.

Grant:
Yes, and I like that there's that consequence there.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
But like, he faces a villain that is, in some regards, a fallout from Iron Man's actions. At the beginning of the movie, he is kind of too reliant on Stark technology, etc. He has to learn to rely on himself, i.e., in Homecoming, it's without the suit, in Far From Home, it's the Spidey sense. And then he beats the villain. And says, "I want to rely on myself more." It's the same arc.

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
Like, if you really boil it down, there's a lot of generalizations there, but.

Drew:
So, I think Far From Home is still pretty bad.

Grant:
But I don't think a 7.5 is like the craziest.

Drew:
No, I think as a movie, if we're removing the Spider-Man aspect, just as an entertainment, it's very entertaining. There is value. But not a lot. No, I'm kidding.

Grant:
I don't think that's too crazy. Hotness scale for this take?

Drew:
I'm going to say Some Smoke.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
That's fine.

Drew:
All right.

Grant:
There's some heat somewhere in there.

Drew:
This is another Far From Home take.

Grant:
Okay.

Drew:
Okay, from PapaGlucose-

Grant:
Frequent-

Drew:
-who's a Stole My Line staple.

Grant:
-commenter. Yes.

Drew:
We love and appreciate you. "The Spider-Man scene- Spider sense scene at the end of Far From Home is the best Spider-Man scene out of all of them." Wow. "Just a completely focused lock-in with the Spidey sense. Far From Home is pretty okay. Not great, but the finale was serious peak." Again, best scene in the movie, for sure.

Grant:
"The best Spider-MAN scene out of all of them?" Is "all of them" referring to the Homecoming trilogy? It might be.

Drew:
I think you're referring to any Spiderman movie.

Grant:
That's just not true.

Drew:
That's just not true.

Grant:
If you said "the best Spidey sense scene," I'd say, "yeah, straight up, that's fine."

Drew:
Or even like "Spidey action scene." That's probably true.

Grant:
It's up there.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
If we're talking like the best overall Spidey action scene, I think the train sequence-

Drew:
Oh, that sequence is awesome.

Grant:
-in Spider-Man 2 is better.

Drew:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Grant:
But like, this isn't a crazy take until you say "any Spiderman scene ever: this is the best one." I do think it is in the top 10?

Drew:
10...

Grant:
Maybe five?

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
Okay, this isn't as crazy as I thought.

Drew:
I think it's fine.

Grant:
I think it is-

Drew:
It's a great scene-

Grant:
-slotted in a bad movie in a-

Drew:
-in a bad movie.

Grant:
-not that great movie.

Drew:
Yeah. Okay.

Grant:
Okay, hotness scale?

Drew:
We agree. I'm going to say Some Smoke.

Grant:
Okay. That's fine. I think a lot of people like this scene. And also a lot of people dislike far from home. All right. I have a take from "llla_german_ewoklll..."

Drew:
This is a crazy name.

Grant:
Or "III," I can't tell, the text is the same. "...6413." What a name. "German Ewok" is what I'm going to call you.

Drew:
Do Ewoks have different nationalities?

Grant:
This one does.

Drew:
Maybe.

Grant:
This one- this one does. All right. "Spiderman Hot Take: Spider-Man: No Way Home is worse than TASM 1 and Spider-Man 3. If you- if you didn't have the nostalgia-bait of Tobey and Andrew's faces, the dialogue and story are super formulaic. And although an enjoyable watch, the more you focus on it, the worse everything gets, unlike TASM 1 and Spider-Man 3. Also TASM 2 is the best movie after Spider-Man 1 and 2. This is maybe just an embers take. But do with it what you will."

Drew:
I don't hate the second take actually. Well... no.

Grant:
No, that- I- I-

Drew:
No, I think I have to.

Grant:
These are crazy. Let's- let's break down the first one first.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
"Spider-Man: No Way Home is worse than TASM 1 and Spider-Man 3." Do you agree or disagree?

Drew:
I can hear an argument for TASM 1.

Grant:
Yeah, I think Spider-Man: No Way Home is in my book worse than Tasm 1.

Drew:
Yeah, I think it is.

Grant:
So I'm fine with that.

Drew:
That's fine. Spider-Man 3 is- it's not.

Grant:
It is not, it is not.

Drew:
I'm sorry, it's not.

Grant:
And if you watch this movie, only the Homecoming trilogy, you probably will be like, "this just feels like so out of left field with all the Spider-Men." But we did a Spider-Man marathon where we talked about all the Spider-Man movies and watched them all before No Way Home. And it does serve as a- there are blemishes with the movie, 100%, but it does serve as a fitting-

Drew:
It is a good capstone.

Grant:
-end-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-for, I mean you have more of Andrew's arc kind of completed in there with him saving MJ. You have a really good mentoring moment with Peter 2 and Peter 1. So Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland, where he's basically stopping him from killing the Green Goblin. Like those moments are actually very good within the context of all Spider-Man ever.

Drew:
I agree.

Grant:
Long winded, but there's my take.

Drew:
I was in this boat before I rewatched it and I rewatched No Way Home trying to be as cynical as possible. Again, this movie has flaws, but.

Grant:
It does.

Drew:
It is- it's better than Spider-Man 3 for sure.

Grant:
Also-

Drew:
TASM 1 is better.

Grant:
-Peter- like the MCU Peter has a story arc that he goes on-

Drew:
Yeah, this is true, this is true.

Grant:
-within the movie that is good. And he makes a good character-driven sacrifice at the end of the movie. Even though there's plotholes around it, it is still a good choice.

Drew:
Dr. Strange shouldn't be in this movie, but you just kind of got to accept that.

Grant:
So I'm going to disagree overall with your take.

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
Although I do think TASM 1 is maybe better. "TASM 2 is the best movie-" Wait, wait. Hotness scale for that first take?

Drew:
Uh, Enough For S'mores.

Grant:
Sure.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Um, the second take is that "TASM 2 is the best movie after Spiderman 1 and 2." What do you think about that?

Drew:
Look, I really like TASM 2. I do. But I think you have to- there has to be some level of you that is- that is critical from a movie perspective.

Grant:
I- tooth fusion is still really freaking dumb.

Drew:
You gotta get off this dang thing.

Grant:
No, I will bring up tooth fusion every time somebody says that TASM 2 is a great movie.

Drew:
And despite the fact that I like this movie, you have to take into account that the plot doesn't make a lot of sense. The villains are pretty bad. The highs are very high.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
The moments with-

Grant:
Peter and Gwen...

Drew:
-Peter and Gwen: incredible. The fact that Gwen dies: phenomenal consequence. The visuals look sick. Andrew Garfield is giving his all in this performance. But Harry: not super compelling.

Grant:
Electro...

Drew:
Electro: not super compelling. The plot...

Grant:
The mystery around his parents.

Drew:
Yeah, like that's bad. But.

Grant:
But the highs are high. And it makes this movie more redeemable in retrospect. I think people decided to hate this movie when it came out. And I think it needs to be revisited culturally. "Hey, this movie is not as bad as we remember."

Drew:
I think- but I think there are better Spider-Man- I think Brand New Day is better. I think-

Grant:
Homecoming.

Drew:
I don't think Home- well...

Grant:
Homecoming is better than Tasm 2, bro. It is.

Drew:
I think that's fine. I think I like-

Grant:
TASM 1 is better than TASM 2.

Drew:
I like it better, but objectively- and objectively, Homecoming is better.

Grant:
Okay. TASM 1 is also objectively better than TASM 2.

Drew:
Yeah, that's true. Okay.

Grant:
Hotness scale?

Drew:
This is close to Raging Fire, honestly. I think I'm going to go Enough For S'mores.

Grant:
No, let's, let's bump it up to-

Grant:
Raging Fire.

Drew:
You know, screw it. We've only had one. Raging Fire.

Grant:
Raging Fire.

Drew:
Congrats, German Ewok. You are now among the raging fires of the world.

Grant:
All right. Let's do at least one more.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Are you ready, Drew?

Drew:
I'm so ready.

Grant:
Hit me with the next take.

Drew:
Okay. We got RhysWhite01. "Reese White?" It's R-H-Y-S. I don't really know. "For some reason, I just can't enjoy the Tobey movies, not that they're awful. I just can't sit through them. I'm unsure why. Maybe it's their age, not growing up with them, or the acting feeling a bit stiff at times. I'm not a huge fan of James Franco or Kirsten Dunst in these films. Same with Tom's movies." Oh, wait. Oh, wow. "Same with Tom's movies. He's good, but all the Iron Man tech, etc., just annoyed me."

Grant:
Oh, so you're like- okay, this is kind of two different takes.

Drew:
I know.

Grant:
But like, stitched together.

Drew:
"I actually really enjoyed Andrew's first movie, though The Amazing Spider-Man is probably my favorite live-action Spider-Man film, seeing him create his own costume and webbing, his relationship with Gwen, and the emotional aspects of the deaths, such as Uncle Ben or Captain Stacey. I can't defend Amazing Spider-Man 2, though, yikes. Overall, my hot take is The Amazing Spider-Man is the best live-action film. Love the pod guys watching from the UK."

Grant:
Aw, thank you.

Drew:
That's crazy. Like, I- it is becoming less crazy.

Grant:
I know the internet-

Drew:
But the fact that there are people watching from other countries-

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
-is insane to me. That's crazy.

Grant:
The internet is actually a worldwide thing, and it sounds crazy, and then we have people comment, and they're like, "oh, I'm from Ireland." I'm like, "that is sick."

Drew:
"Watching from the UK."

Grant:
I want to go to Ireland. Like, yeah, this is awesome, so.

Drew:
What's your favorite thing about living in the UK?

Grant:
I was about to ask just a dumb question, so I'm not going to ask it. Okay.

Drew:
Also, if anyone else is from anywhere crazy, let us know.

Grant:
Yeah, we actually want to hear. All right. I don't think this is actually the craziest take.

Drew:
Really? Okay. Oh, I don't think it is. Well, continue.

Grant:
The Tobey portion: there are- there is aging shown in these movies. Like, you can just see the age that they were-

Drew:
These movies are dated.

Grant:
Now, I think Spider-Man 2 holds up the best of all of them, but I don't think the dialogue is particularly good in any of them, except maybe Spider-Man 2. And even then, there's some not great moments. I think the acting is, I don't know- I don't think comic books had their own genre. Like, they didn't know how seriously they needed to take themselves at the time. And this feels very campy.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
But also, so did the earlier Spider-Man comics.

Drew:
I think that's true.

Grant:
And this leans into that. So, it probably does that character and that vibe justice, but it doesn't translate well to the big screen as much.

Drew:
I agree. I think with Tom, kind of the trilogy as a whole, not counting Brand New Day, but we can- I'll talk about it in a second. But it's very John Hughes.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
Very like... It's, and like, here's my biggest problem with these movies is, I would argue, it's more inspired by pop culture and not necessarily the actual source material, that being the comic books than the TASM and Raimi. But I still think there are some good qualities, but it's just very John Hughes, very teenager-y, kind of the campy MCU-ness that we'd become accustomed to.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
I would say TASM is the most realistic.

Grant:
Sure. Tooth fusion...

Drew:
In a very broad sense.

Grant:
No, I do think they tried to do the Dark Knight thing-

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
-with Spider-Man, and it worked to varying degrees within both the movies.

Drew:
Yeah. But I think at the end of the day, this is a very subjective argument. I don't think there is a... There is one definitive best Spider-Man or best movies. If you like the camp, go to Tobey.

Grant:
I think the best movies... Well, okay, if you're breaking down all the movies, I think you're right. But like, I think we can all say that Spider-Man 2 is the best Spider-Man movie, and.

Drew:
Well, sure. Yeah, yeah.

Grant:
The majority of people would agree with that.

Drew:
But like, if anyone came up to me and said, "I think Tobey's my favorite, or Tom's my favorite, or Andrew," I don't think I could be like, "you're wrong and here's why."

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
I'd be like, "okay, that's fine."

Grant:
That's fair.

Drew:
They're all very different vibes, very different things. If you like Andrew, great. I think objectively, again, in massive quotes, "Spider-Man 2 is the best Spider-Man movie..."

Grant:
Yep. I'm fine with that.

Drew:
But like, as a collection, as a unit, as each of these individuals...

Grant:
Now, going to this take, I guess my personal perspective, I don't really care for Tobey Maguire-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-or Kirsten Dunst-

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
-or James Franco.

Drew:
I'm a Kirsten Dunst defender. I like MJ.

Grant:
No. Okay. Within the movie, she's fine.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
I mean, I'm talking about, as actors...

Drew:
Okay, sure.

Grant:
I don't really care for any of them that much. Whereas like, I think I'm more invested in Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone as actors-

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
-nowadays. I think they have done a lot of great stuff since the TASM movies. And I don't really care for their acting in those (Raimi) movies either. I think it's fine. I think the character writing is better in those movies. And that's what saves it for me. And I didn't even grow up on these movies. Like, I watched them maybe when I was in middle school or high school-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-a few times. And just now, I've really started watching them a little bit more. Mostly because Drew's a big Spider-Man fan.

Drew:
And we started this podcast.

Grant:
And we started this podcast. So, yeah, I think I have things I appreciate about them. Same with Tom's movies in a different way. I did grow up on those a little bit more-

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
-because I watched those a ton in high school. But, yes, I see where you're coming from and I can agree.

Drew:
I don't know if I'm going to agree here, but I respect your opinion for sure.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
I just, I think it's, I think I like Tobey the best just because I think they have the best understanding of who Spider-Man is-

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
-in general.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
Again, very subjective.

Grant:
Yeah, I'm okay with that. How hot do you think this is overall?

Drew:
I think it's really subjective. But some smoke?

Grant:
I think because it's so subjective, some people would agree. Some people would disagree.

Drew:
It sounds like the perfect place for some smoke.

Grant:
I was about to say, "right in the middle of the road." I think there is a middle ground where I fall in as well. Like I agree with some stuff.

Drew:
Sure.

Grant:
But also, I like the Tom movies.

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
But I also understand that you don't care for the Iron Man tech or the acting in the Raimi trilogy. So for those reasons, I'm okay with that.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
So.

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
All right, let's wrap this thing up. Drew, what do we have coming up soon on Stole My Line?

Drew:
All right. If we didn't get to your take, we apologize. There will be more of these to come. We're probably going to take a little bit of a pause.

Grant:
We don't want to milk Spider-Man forever.

Drew:
Because we've already had three episodes and we've done all of Spider-Man.

Grant:
But when Into the Spider- not into the Spider-Verse. When Beyond the Spider-Verse comes out.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
We'll revisit Spider-Man Hot Takes.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
So. give it about nine months. We'll get to yours.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
Um, but yeah, we have, uh, Doomsday.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
Dune. A bunch of artsy movies. Fjord, Social Reckoning, The Debut.

Grant:
I Play Rocky.

Drew:
I Play Rocky. Uh, Hope, which is like a Neon zombie apocalypse Asian movie, which looks interesting.

Grant:
Does look interesting.

Drew:
Who knows?

Grant:
Yep. Also, we have Lanterns going right now, which is a super interesting superhero show.

Drew:
Very good. If you're into DC.

Grant:
Or if you're not into DC, honestly, check it out. It's great.

Drew:
It's just a good show, period.

Grant:
Yeah. So we're reviewing that right now. And we have the Dog Stars coming out this weekend-

Drew:
True.

Grant:
-that we're going to talk about, which-

Drew:
September 1st...

Grant:
Yes. This is a big, this is a big deal.

Drew:
...is our most interesting video I think we've ever made.

Grant:
And it is... just kidding.

Drew:
We're not going to tell you.

Grant:
We're not going to tell you. Ragebait.

Drew:
But it's coming out September 1st. It's a concept that we have never tried before in our entire lives.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
So this is a big swing for us. It's also paired with a massive announcement.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
So be there or be square. It'll be sick. We're super proud of how it's going. We haven't finished it yet, but.

Grant:
Nope. I like where we're at.

Drew:
I like where we're at.

Grant:
Yes. That's all we're going to say.

Drew:
Yeah. Anything else we have?

Grant:
I mean. just have awesome fans.

Drew:
We just have great people around us, yeah.

Grant:
So if you want to join our awesome fan base, hit that subscribe button.

Drew:
You should.

Grant:
Comment below what's your favorite- actually, no. Don't comment below your favorite Spider-Man movie, because- do something that's like a hot take and an objective opinion that you believe "this is objectively good or bad."

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
Don't just be like, "this is my favorite Spider-Man movie." We love hearing that. But comment below a hot take if you have one. We might even throw in some hot takes during our MCU Hot Takes episode-

Drew:
I was about to say-

Grant:
-that we'll inevitably come.

Drew:
-we are going to do MCU hot takes sooner than Spider-Man. So if you want to pivot there, if you want to-

Grant:
Send it.

Drew:
-get featured sooner, that will probably be the most effective way.

Grant:
Yep. nd we do copy and paste all of them that are in the comment section-

Drew:
Right.

Grant:
-and put them in our notes app. So it's not like we just skip people because we don't care about you. We have all of them saved. We will try to get to them at some point. So that's all we have.

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
I don't really got anything else.

Drew:
I don't neither.

Grant:
Take a break...

Drew:
...and enjoy a film.

Grant:
No!

Drew:
Oh, I did it again- Okay, do it again. Do it again.

Grant:
It's been so long.

Drew:
I know, I know, I know

Grant:
Take a break...

Drew:
...and with great power comes great responsibility...

Grant:
...enjoy film.

Drew:
There we go.