Stole My Line - A Fireside Film Podcast
House of the Dragon - Season 3 Finale

Grant:
Drew, it's been nearly four years. Do you know since when?

Drew:
Yep, since I was in high school. I don't— I don't know.

Grant:
Okay, true — it has been nearly four years since House of the Dragon had an actual finale. And today we had an actual—

Drew:
There's an actual finale!

Grant:
House of the Dragon finale. Roll intro.

Grant:
Welcome back to Stole My Line, the hit — outside movie podcast? I'm Grant.

Drew:
Yeah, can we claim to be the hit podcast?

Grant:
I don't know, I feel like we're hit. Are we hit? You tell me.

Drew:
Yeah, okay, we— we like ourselves.

Grant:
No, we're a fireside film podcast. I'm Grant.

Drew:
And I'm Drew.

Grant:
So welcome. We're talking about movies and TV by the fire. If you're new to the channel, hit subscribe — if you're on audio, or if you're like, "Oh, I listen to podcasts"—

Drew:
Same. Why not?

Grant:
—go give us a five-star review. We would love that, we would appreciate that. Um, if you were here we'd give you a hug, but we can't do that.

Drew:
We would. Yeah.

Grant:
But still, consider doing that. Um — House of the Dragon has a finale.

Drew:
It's true, we're back. Well — yeah.

Grant:
We're back, and now we're done for a few more years.

Drew:
We're back, and now we're done. I—

Grant:
But what do you think of the House of the Dragon season three finale, Drew?

Drew:
That was good. I think there are lots of interesting character moves that happened. It did kind of feel like — I don't know—

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
—now it's like, now we have to wait four years for it to come back.

Grant:
You know—

Drew:
It'll still be dark people in dark rooms talking.

Grant:
People talking in dark rooms. Um—

Drew:
But I agree, oh, that's good — yep, I agree.

Grant:
No, I think this finale ties up the threads of this season pretty well. No sewing pun intended — actually, that was unintended — but I do think there's a lot of storylines that got a form of conclusion in this episode, which is what a House of the Dragon finale should do. It should have done that in season two.

Drew:
Yep, yep.

Grant:
So now we have it in season three, and that's fine. So — the Battle of Tumbleton happens.

Drew:
There was a battle at Tumbleton.

Grant:
So, I don't know, where do you want to start? Any specific storyline you want to talk about first?

Drew:
Obviously spoilers for the whole season, and probably the whole show.

Grant:
Yes, yes.

Drew:
So if you haven't seen it and you care, now is your time. Um, I think Daemon really got his moment to shine here.

Grant:
Yep, he did — this is kind of Daemon's thing, fighting people—

Drew:
Fighting people.

Grant:
—and then making poor-ish decisions and having to deal with them.

Drew:
Yep, that is what happened.

Grant:
Which is what happened in this episode.

Drew:
Um, I think this showed nobody's great in this show, but the Hightowers specifically — Ormund putting kids up on the barricades — horrible.

Grant:
Not really that great. And then Daemon just burns them.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
Also not great.

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
So — I mean, everybody's conniving, everybody's making chess moves to try to win the game. Ormund especially — I mean, Ormund is now dead.

Drew:
Ormund's toasted. Yeah.

Grant:
He is so dead. So now that he's dead—

Drew:
Yeah.

Grant:
—looking back on the season, he was a fun villain, and I liked having him in the season.

Drew:
I think he was— He was great at getting all the characters where they needed to be, and he was a relatively compelling antagonist, and his death — it was satisfying. Yeah.

Grant:
Yeah, it was satisfying. He's very watchable, you kind of hate him. So when he died that way, you were like, okay, that was satisfying. A little bit more satisfying than Sir Criston Cole's death, might I add?

Drew:
Yep, that was it, and they mentioned that in this episode — they're like, "how do you die?" Yeah. And he's like — I don't even know, it's like, dang.

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
That's—

Grant:
It is tough. Um, I do think all the pieces that Ormund put into place then serve a purpose and function within this battle. For example, Ulf, for example, Daeron — um, like everybody who is in this battle kind of serves a purpose, and a lot of character conclusions happen, or occur, in this episode. So — yeah, um, any other thoughts on the Hightowers?

Drew:
They are bad.

Grant:
All of them. Is Daeron?...

Drew:
Daeron's pretty good. I honestly like Gwayne too.

Grant:
But Daeron, technically it's—

Drew:
Gwayne's kind of— he's all right, he's just—

Grant:
Yeah, Gwayne's kind of he's all right.

Drew:
They are the two characters where it's like, y'all are making the best decisions out of anybody. It's true.

Grant:
I love how we call Daeron a Hightower, because he functionally is, even though he's a Targaryen with a dragon. We just consider him a Hightower. Um, what did you—

Drew:
He's really a pawn of the Hightowers. So he hasn't really decided who he is yet. I don't think we have that peace, basically. Yeah, yeah.

Grant:
For sure. Uh, what do you think of the scene — this is one of my favorite scenes of the episode, because it was pretty tense — when Gwayne brings Lord Corlys to Daemon, and he's like, "Hey, can we go for peace here?" And he was just like, no.

Drew:
It was like, "we're not doing that." It was interesting — I think I like that Daeron subverted Ormund finally. That's good.

Grant:
Yes, that had been set up too.

Drew:
Had been set up.

Grant:
Good writing.

Drew:
And I mean, it makes perfect sense for Daemon — and I don't even know the guy's name, but the guy with the big beard, the—

Grant:
Oh gosh, yeah, I don't remember.

Drew:
—ruler of the North, maybe? I don't know — it makes sense that they're like, "frick, can we kill Gwayne?"

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
So that was my favorite scene—

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
—maybe in the whole episode — is, oh my gosh, Aegon and Aemon— Aegon and Aemond, that was so good.

Grant:
Yes! You got the names down — look, it took you eight episodes, but you even got the names down.

Drew:
So good.

Grant:
I'm so proud of you. No, that was a great scene. Um—

Drew:
He was so annoying in the first half of the season, I know it—

Grant:
He got, like, a sleeper great character now. It took him like — but he kind of become his own character? And I mean, I knew he'd be a big player towards the end of the show. And this sets up the end of the show, of like, yeah, Aegon and Aemond are teaming up, even though Aemond tried to kill Aegon. And they're teaming up and they're gonna march on King's Landing.

Drew:
He was almost played for comedy when he gets off his dragon and he's like, "I'm alive!"

Grant:
Yeah, yeah, it's great, his performance is awesome.

Drew:
I was like, that's so funny. He has become more mature — I know, my question is, why has he become more mature?

Grant:
It's a lot of fun, but then Aemond has— I don't know, I want to hear what you think about his character progression this season, because he's become more mature, but then he's almost less watchable. Like, he was so fun because he was a wild card. So I don't know, what you think?

Drew:
I don't really think I understand that. He's just kind of been talking to a witch lady the whole time.

Grant:
I mean, it's the same reason Daemon kind of became more mature when he was there as well, like — I guess these visions that they're having make them more introspective.

Drew:
Okay, that's fine.

Grant:
A little bit. We'll go with that, but—

Drew:
I—

Grant:
I mean, Aemond was probably due for some maturity anyway, so—

Drew:
I think that's true. And I mean, he realized he gets poisoned by his mom, and he can't trust anybody except — allegedly — the witch lady.

Grant:
Shout out, Alys.

Drew:
We shall see if Alys is trustworthy. I think she is, at least to Aemond.

Grant:
I don't know, I think she's using him.

Drew:
Really?

Grant:
But like, everybody's using everybody here.

Drew:
Yeah, I mean, that's kind of par for the course.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
I— like, that I have — the three of them is super interesting, I think it's very intriguing.

Grant:
Next season— yes.

Drew:
Next season, and then we have Rhaenyra—

Grant:
We do have Rhaenyra and— Really quick, before we get into Rhaenyra, if it's all right, I want to ask you a question that does pertain to her. You've said before on this podcast that this show does not work if Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship doesn't work.

Drew:
Okay, I've said that.

Grant:
And the first season was very strong; the second season had strong moments and weak moments.

Drew:
Yep — yep, kind of. Well, it's not non-existent, but yeah, or been trapped in the walls.

Grant:
What do you think about their relationship this season? Because I think the last few episodes they've been like, obviously apart, but I feel like Alicent hasn't done much besides poison Aemond. I don't know, what do you think?

Drew:
I think their relationship is equally interesting if you take the whole season as a whole.

Grant:
Yeah, this season she's been a little bit — just like there — and she did do stuff, but she's not in the fray. Yes.

Drew:
I think you are watching Rhaenyra become significantly more cold, and she is losing her care for people as the crown becomes heavier, which I think is interesting to watch.

Grant:
Yep. Yes.

Drew:
But that includes Alicent — like, even in the beginning of the season she's like, "I'm not gonna hurt you or Helaena, I'm gonna lock you away, I'll feed you—"

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
"—I'll take care of you," and then she's basically like, "all right, go kill your son" — and—

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
It's just — yeah, I mean, she is becoming more and more cold.

Grant:
Yeah, and I think you even see it — spoilers for kind of the end scene, but Helaena — content warning, by the way — Helaena commits suicide, which — honestly it's pretty tragic knowing her character, because she low-key went through it. Um, it just is sad. Um, but then — Rhaenyra's reaction to that, I mean it was kind of horrifying, but then she finds this blanket that Helaena had been working on all season, and she's like, "oh, sick, this is mine now," and, "I'm gonna close this window" —

Drew:
Yeah, and I think maybe even part of her is glad, because—

Grant:
like, she didn't really care that Helaena had died. It's one less thing to worry about, maybe.

Drew:
One less thing to worry about, and potentially had it coming — I think it makes a lot of sense.

Grant:
Yeah, I don't know, I mean — because Helaena was a dragon rider, even if she never rode her dragon.

Drew:
Yeah, that's true.

Grant:
So it kind of did suit Rhaenyra's needs — slash desires — even if she wasn't going to do it herself. So what do you think of when Rhaenyra goes to the High Septon? He says, "I want you to bless me," and he's like, "no." And then she's like, "well, screw you guys anyway."

Drew:
I honestly think her character arc has been done really well for the whole show. I mean, if she has this prophecy allegedly said about her—

Grant:
Mm-hmm.

Drew:
—that she will be the rightful ruler of King's Landing, and—

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
You were watching this get tested, and tested, and tested, and then when Aegon is revealed to be alive, the dam breaks, and—

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
—it's like — her faith is being tested by this prophecy, and in this episode it's almost revealed that she doesn't believe it, so now she's taking it by force.

Grant:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Drew:
I think it's super intriguing. Yeah.

Grant:
Yeah, and I mean, obviously if you've seen Game of Thrones you realize the Song of Ice and Fire isn't about Rhaenyra, it's about Daenerys. And the show doesn't do a great job of handling the actual prophecy, but whatever, that's a whole separate conversation. Um, and I think — it is more deep, which I know you haven't seen Game of Thrones — but if you've seen Game of Thrones you realize, like, oh, everybody here is kind of mistaken. This isn't about Rhaenyra at all — the person it's about comes hundreds of years later. And so, when they reference, you know, the Night King, the White Walkers, very indirectly — the threats in the North — and all of this stuff that occurs in Game of Thrones, it just adds a layer of, like, man, these people are so misguided. But you can't even blame them, because they don't have that kind of foresight. So it adds a cool little layer to this whole show, of like — yeah, Daemon was wrong when he had that vision, he was like, "I saw a girl with dragons," and that was — you were like, that wasn't Rhaenyra, even though it's easily mistaken. So, um, but I think — this is again kind of spoilers for Game of Thrones — Rhaenyra's arc here of becoming a mad queen is similar to the arc of a character in Game of Thrones, probably not gonna spoil it for Drew, but that arc was done very poorly and very rushed, even though I think it was a smart arc for that character to go on. I think this is done better, and so I'm enjoying watching it, for sure.

Drew:
The benefit of having, at this point — when it's plus hours — of a show, or close to thirty, is you have time to break down your character. Whether it's boring to watch or not is not the point — I think the arc is executed very well, because they have all this time to explore. I think the execution is not for everybody, which is kind of — the show, I don't think this show is really for me, and that's okay. But I have enjoyed it, and I think the arc itself is executed very well, right?

Grant:
Well, and I think about — I mean, obviously Rhaenyra, with the little scenes of her grabbing Helaena's arm, and showing that little bit of violence and coldness, or like—

Grant:
—I think about Daeron's character, and how he and Ormund have kind of — not sparred, but Ormund has kind of made him do stuff that it's very obvious he doesn't want to do, and it happened over the entirety of the season, from when he had to kill that commoner early in the season — I mean, there were just little things that hacked away at Daeron to the point where he subverts what Ormund wants. And so I think the show does work really well if all the payoffs land, which I think in this episode, they do — that's when the show really works, and that's what makes the season strong. I think a lot of people go back and forth on the show — we've had comments saying the show is really boring, the characters aren't well written, and other people say the show is the greatest thing on earth — look at our comment section.

Drew:
Yeah, if you want to see the duality of man, look at our comment section for this show specifically. Yep, it's very—

Grant:
But I think that this show, if you take it for what it is — specifically this season — it has slower storylines that build, kind of bubble up, and bubble over in this episode. This is not the greatest finale of all time, but it's very good. So I liked what occurred here. I mean, as someone who hasn't read Fire and Blood, I know a little bit about how Rhaenyra's story ends, I know a little bit about Aegon's arc, etc, just from having been around Game of Thrones for a while.

Drew:
I was gonna ask, where do you think this is gonna go? You have more information than I do.

Grant:
Um, I mean, I think this episode sets up season four, which is potentially the last season, to be Aegon versus Rhaenyra, which is kind of what the show has been since season two, more or less. I think it sets up that conflict pretty well — like, yeah, we know who the big players are going to be in season four, because of the fallout of season three. So—

Drew:
I don't think Daemon- or Daeron will be a contender — I think he's just gonna go off in the hills and eat bread all day.

Grant:
See, here's the thing — I also know how Daeron's story ends, unfortunately. Um, I say unfortunately because I wish I didn't know.

Drew:
It's sad, I feel like it's gonna be sad.

Grant:
But — also, the thing about the show is that they are diverging a little bit in different areas, so I don't know when outcomes are going to happen—

Drew:
Okay.

Grant:
—or if they are at all — like, they might just scrap a whole storyline. So I don't really know where Daeron's going. I like him as a character, I'm a big fan of Benjamin Evan Ainsworth, I'm excited for the Zelda movie. So — that being said—

Drew:
Every episode he said that, I think he is good.

Grant:
I'm gonna — listen, he's great, I love him. Um, he's sympathetic, and—

Drew:
He's very —

Grant:
What happens to sympathetic, honorable characters in Game of Thrones? Not usually great stuff. So—

Drew:
yeah, you feel for them. They all die.

Grant:
Um, we'll see where his arc goes. But I mean, he has a dragon, he's not helpless.

Drew:
That is true, true. It'll be interesting to see what he does.

So we'll see how that pans out — if he's going to join somebody's side, or if he's gonna do his own thing like he did this season, but he's not under Ormund's thumb anymore.

Drew:
Oh yeah, we should— I might have— Yeah, I'm intrigued.

Grant:
That's about that. So, any other storylines you want to talk about? Uh, scenes that stuck out to you? I mean, we could talk about Ulf a little bit — who was kind of a wild card this episode, and has been for the whole season — but what do you think of his episode arc here?

Drew:
That was good again. I think I said this on an earlier episode, but when you have a character — and I'm not talking down on him, but — he has very little loyalty on either side.

Grant:
Oh, yeah, 100 percent — which is kind of Rhaenyra's mistake, that she won't even admit to herself, that—

Drew:
Exactly.

Grant:
—yeah, she did get these dragon riders, and they don't have a lot of reasons to actually be loyal to somebody. Yes.

Drew:
Right, and he's kind of a scummy person, just in lifestyle. So obviously he will—

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
—follow the money, that just makes sense from a character effect, I think it's great there. Also it makes sense that when you get beat up ten minutes before you hop on a dragon, you'd probably go kill Ormund — like, Ormund just screwed him over and then told him to get on a dragon.

Grant:
Yes.

Drew:
I'm like, probably not the best tactical play there, my guy.

Grant:
Yep.

Drew:
It would make complete sense that he gets toasted — I think it is good.

Grant:
Yeah, um, I do think that Ulf's writing is actually pretty good. Even though he doesn't have a ton of screen time, I think he's an important character — one, but two, that's the benefit of having eight-ish episodes to build out a character, is that — with Ulf you see him get beat around by basically everybody, from Rhaenyra to Daemon to Ormund, like—

Drew:
Everybody, yeah, and I think it's an interesting—

Grant:
—he has a reason to do everything. I think a lesser version of the show would just have him hopping around sides for no real reason. But there's a lot of cause and effect with this character that makes sense, so I appreciate that in the writing.

Drew:
It's not really commentary, but maybe even a little bit — both Daemon and Ormund basically—

Grant:
Oh yeah, 100 percent, or manipulate him. Yes.

Drew:
Because he's — yeah, because he's lesser than, he's not one of the Hightowers, and not of the Targaryens. I mean, he is a Targaryen, but—

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
I just think it's interesting, it's interesting commentary.

Grant:
Yeah. Well, and you mentioning this, I think I had a question for you coming into this discussion, of — like, there is a politics — world-building side of Game of Thrones — that isn't even really explicitly said, like, you have to do some digging to learn about Old Valyria, and I mean, even just like the hierarchy of the houses, etc. And so, how have you been doing with — for example, the High Septon and the Seven, and all of this stuff, like — the church factor of the politics is an aspect of Game of Thrones that if you've watched seasons of Game of Thrones you understand a little bit, but it's not as present in House of the Dragon until now. And, how are you doing, I guess, with the politics and all of that, as a newcomer to Game of Thrones?

Drew:
I don't know what High Valyrian is— I—

Grant:
Okay, yeah.

Drew:
—still don't really know that. I mean, it's related to Corlys somehow, and I don't know other than that.

Grant:
Sure. I mean, people might flame me in the comment section for that, but — I think, one, that's ridiculous, but two—like, there's a lot of world-building here that's kind of unsaid, in just reference, which I think is good for the story. But also, probably hard to pick up on if you're new to the Game of Thrones universe.

Drew:
Well, I don't think it's essential— I mean, I think I understand—

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
—whatever it is, the character motivation makes sense here.

Grant:
Like when you say "the blood of Old Valyria," you're like, okay— you don't know what that is, but you know generally what that phrase is functioning as within the conversation.

Drew:
I was like, I don't know what that is, but we move on, and it's fine. Sure. And then the church—

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
I am just kind of inferring old Catholicism — and, be like, similar vibes, like the church's blessing obviously has a lot of cultural impact. To be what Rhaenyra wants — like, the show-face for the people—

Grant:
Yeah.

Drew:
—would make them trust her more, and he doesn't want to do that because he doesn't feel like the gods are saying that. I'm like, this all makes sense. I don't— I don't—

Grant:
Yes. Okay. Yeah, I think— And again, this is my own inference, I haven't done a ton of research on George R.R. Martin's specific references and influences, but a lot of this was based on actual — like, medieval politics and battles, etc, etc. Um, and so — I guess the church's function could have been similar to the church in those times, I don't really know, but — again, you've said it well, there's enough to infer from it that you don't have to go do a ton of research, unless you want to, and then you can learn more if you want to. But — yeah, okay, I'm glad that you're doing well. I guess there's no other things you want to talk about with this season finale. I have a few more questions for you, if you're ready. My question number one — let's rank all three House of the Dragon seasons, where does this one slot? If you had to slot it somewhere — because I feel like we had one and two—

Drew:
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say one three two.

Grant:
Okay, so — season one, number one; season three, number two; season two, number three. I feel good about that. I think I'd say the same thing. I think season one, the drama is a little bit—

Drew:
Yeah, yeah, I think Viserys being the linchpin is also so interesting.

Grant:
More cohesive—

Drew:
We'll say that.

Grant:
Yes, yes — he, gosh, he functions so well in that season, he's super interesting to watch. Okay, um, on a scale of one — we'll go one to seven, I think you know the seven, um—

Drew:
Yeah — what did I say last time? I don't even know.

Grant:
I think you're in the four range—ish. Maybe the threes. On a scale of one to seven, how likely are you to want to watch Game of Thrones? Let's say you had all the time in the world—

Drew:
Okay, I had all the time in the world, I—

Grant:
No, but like— would it be the first thing you watch?

Drew:
I— go on, a scale of one to seven, what is that? If I had all the time in the world, I would watch it — hold on, there's important context, we don't have all the time in the world.

Grant:
No.

Drew:
Okay, so realistically — now, since we don't have all the time in the world— I still like a four point six out of seven, maybe, I guess — I think it is—

Grant:
That's a positive number.

Drew:
Yes, it's more than half.

Grant:
Okay, alright, I feel good about that. Subscribe if you want us to have more time in the world to watch all of Game of Thrones, slash watch it for the first time.

Drew:
Yeah, yeah — send this video, to every friend, you know, if you really want me to watch Game of— um

Grant:
If you like our fireside vibe, hit that subscribe button. Um, Drew— you could be one character in House of the Dragon—

Drew:
They are all horrible people.

Grant:
Yes, they're all horrible people. If you had to be though, who would you pick?

Drew:
Had to be, probably Daeron, just because he's like the most moral—

Grant:
Oh, I was going to pick Daeron too. Daemon is pretty sick.

Drew:
Yeah, but he's horrible, he's like—

Grant:
He's not a great person, I would not want to do his actions, but his sword fighting is really sick.

Drew:
He's sick, yeah, the aura he has is—

Grant:
His aura would be tough.

Drew:
He's strong.

Grant:
But Daeron's a good pick, because he has morals and he has a dragon.

Drew:
True.

Grant:
So you kind of get the best of both worlds there.

Drew:
See, if I was Daeron, I would fly away and go to —

Grant:
To live in Essos or something.

Drew:
like, I don't know what that is, but yeah, that's where I'd be.

Grant:
That's not crazy. Yep, we'll see how that shapes up in season four. Season four is probably two or three years away, realistically, because that's how House of the Dragon works. But if you like House of the Dragon, or you like Game of Thrones, guess what we have on our channel—

Drew:
You're not gonna believe this— your jaw will be on the floor when we say this,

Grant:
We have actually reviewed A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms season one.

Drew:
which is way better than this show—

Grant:
Yeah, yep. I would agree, actually, I think A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is, for what it is, better than House of the Dragon. Maybe not deeper, but better. So, um, if you're into Ser Duncan the Tall, if you like that show—

Drew:
"Get up."

Grant:
"Get up, Ser Duncan." You can watch all our reviews, we will review season two when that comes out next year — I think filming just wrapped.

Drew:
— yeah, that's what I read.

Grant:
I just read the book, so I'm very excited to talk about that next season of that show.

Drew:
If you're in the market for more HBO products, we're talking about Lanterns—

Grant:
We got you.

Drew:
We're also gonna talk about the Harry Potter show when it comes out.

Grant:
Yes, which will be a whole topic of conversation.

Drew:
Super interesting.

Grant:
Um, subscribe if you want to hear that. Uh, what else do we have coming up, Drew?

Drew:
Yeah, we have Lanterns, we have a bunch of artsy movies around the corner. We got Fjord, we got Social Reckoning, we got—

Grant:
Mm-hmm.

Drew:
—Behemoth! We actually just posted a video about our most anticipated movies.

Grant:
Yes, it's a good one — yes, so go watch that.

Drew:
So go watch that one. Any movie coming out, any shows coming out, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah.

Grant:
Obviously Dune and Doomsday are around the corner, we have Clayface—

Drew:
They face—

Grant:
—uh, we have I Play Rocky—

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
—Resident Evil's coming out—

Drew:
Yep.

Grant:
I mean, there's a lot of stuff coming out, and we're gonna review as much of it as we possibly can. So hit that subscribe button, we're also going through Ted Lasso right now-

Drew:
Yep. Oh yeah, we're going through Ted Lasso too.

Grant:
The second episode review will come out, I think, Wednesday. So if you like Ted Lasso, we're going through that right now, hit that subscribe button again. Thank you for being here — if there's nothing else, take a break.

Drew:
And enjoy a film.